H05058 BOLDWOOD'S CHARACTER 7/19/05 - HARDY FORUM ARCHIVES ____________________________________________________________________________
From: pauline.guerin@ntlworld.com
Subject: RE: Bathsheba
Date: July 19, 2005 11:08:56 AM PDT
I've been following this with the utmost fascination, it's brilliant! I have a question though that ...well I don't know if it throws a spanner in the works or not.. but why is Boldwood/David so quick to condemn her when he thinks that Troy has 'taken' her out of wedlock... or have I missed the point?
Pauline
Boldwood as David always made the most sense to me. He actively tries to get rid of Troy by offering to buy him off and is, relative to the other characters, a man of power and property - about as kingly as you could get in context.
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From: Rosemarie.morgan@yale.edu
Subject: RE: Bathsheba
Date: July 21, 2005 8:57:40 AM PDT
Sorry no one has responded to your query, Pauline. But here's my dime's worth below: (RM)
I'm not sure he "condemns her." He is concerned, in the confrontation with Troy about "a woman's honour and shame." (XXXIII).
1. From a social point of view, this would make her a "fallen woman" -- / Boldwood has been closely involved with Fanny Robin's predicament and knows the consequences that an unmarried, sexually-active women would suffer.
2. From a personal point of view, he would be insanely jealous might she have given herself to Troy (a menial soldier) all the while holding him (Boldwood) at arm's length. He regards himself as a favourable suitor and believes this to be true right to the bitter end. He is indifferent to the fact that Bathsheba is repelled by him.
Hope this helps-
Rosemarie
PS And thanks Paul for the confirmation of my philosophical meanderings (though the idea of your bearing any resemblance to a cheap graphic novel is rather hard to swallow!)
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From: pauline.guerin@ntlworld.com
Subject: RE: Bathsheba
Date: July 21, 2005 9:23:10 AM PDT
Ah thank you so much for your reply, I thought perhaps I was not intellectual enough in my query, (being quite new to this it would not have surprised me!) . I can see both points of course, that you mention and that makes total sense, so thank you for that... I was also wondering if the thread of David and the biblical sense added any more to it or not... but your reply would suggest probably not.
Thank you again for replying the thread was actually extremely useful to me in my current dissertation on male madness for which Boldwood is a perfect study. It is interesting how the males that I am using all seem .bar one.. to be driven to madness by women!
Kind regards
Pauline
1. From a social point of view, this would make her a "fallen woman" -- / Boldwood has been closely involved with Fanny Robin's predicament and knows the consequences that an unmarried, sexually-active women would suffer.
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From: jacky@wilkibob.me.uk
Subject: RE: Bathsheba
Date: July 21, 2005 11:02:16 AM PDT
It is interesting how the males that I am using all seem .bar one.. to be driven to madness by women!
Who is the 'bar one', Pauline? I think your diss sounds fascinating. Where are you studying, by the way? I'm just in the throes of finishing my first draft, so the Forum is a welcome respite from what I think is the most unrewarding part of the diss.
Jacky
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From: pauline.guerin@ntlworld.com
Subject: RE: Bathsheba
Date: July 21, 2005 11:27:46 AM PDT
Well in the books I'm using which are; The Lifted Veil , George Eliot, Mad Monkton, Wilkie collins, Basil also by Wilkie Collins and Far from the Madding Crowd... it is Mad Monkton who is not affected by a woman, he has the support of his fiancee, but his madness comes from fear of an old superstition, and family motto. Not Hardy I know, but very interesting all the same.
It seems to me that Boldwood is actually the most 'normal' perhaps the most believable character out of all of them. He is certainly the most masculine... the others are driven into feminine hysteria, (including Monkton) die or fade away into a spinster like existence. As Rosemarie was saying earlier, it's interesting how Boldwood sees himself as the perfect suitor all the way through, his denial of Bathsheba's lack of interest in him makes him irrational (fairly like a woman) and he loses it, whereas Oak retains his rationality all through even though he too is obsessed with Bathsheba in his own way.
I'm currently comparing the way they all look to real life 19th C inmates at Bethlam hospital... very interesting.
I'm studying at Reading University, Berkshire England... sadly the end of this masters degree will be my last year of study I think. What is your dissertation about?
Kind regards
Pauline
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From: Rosemarie.morgan@yale.edu
Subject: RE: Boldwood
Date: July 21, 2005 11:48:47 AM PDT
This makes sound psychological sense. Psychosis appears to be most easily determined by the individual's inability to function in relation to an other, as opposed to, say, soap! To wit, there is a Dickensian character who, obsessed with hygiene, continuously soaps his hands. He is of course obsessive, as is Boldwood. But he has not targeted an object (a woman) which or who will frustrate his obsession.
Good Luck
Rosemarie
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From: jacky@wilkibob.me.uk
Subject: RE: Bathsheba
Date: July 21, 2005 12:31:02 PM PDT
Yes, I find, Boldwood a most fascinating character, and empathise with him quite a lot. I read somewhere that Hardy was one of the first of the Victorian novelists to explore the relatively new science of psychology in his character of Boldwood, and, as you say, he is a most convincing portrait - unlike Rochester's wife in Jane Eyre, who is much more a caricature of madness, I think. What I find interesting about Hardy's depiction of Boldwood is that he is a realistic figure, neither entirely good nor entirely bad, in comparison with many other Victorian fictional creations. In many respects I can fully understand his reaction to Troy, given the tenets of the society at that time. Hardy does not make either him nor Troy unsympathetic figures, they both have softer, humane sides which draws the readers empathy towards them.
Jacky
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From: pauline.guerin@ntlworld.com
Subject: RE: Bathsheba
Date: July 21, 2005 1:30:22 PM PDT
Yes I agree.... And what else is interesting as well is that at the end when Boldwood gives himself and is effectively pardoned from execution, Oak expresses his doubt about Boldwood's action on Troy as being madness... this is so reflective of actual life and the confusion in the law of responsibility in mental disease as described by Henry Maudsley, it strikes me that Hardy not only knew his Biblical stuff, he was also very very much aware of social and legal issues of the time as well. I'm including a piece in my dissertation on law and mental responsibility based on Boldwood's case. Certainly I think that Hardy is using the idea as 'safe' form of mental exploration and query.
Pauline
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From: jacky@wilkibob.me.uk
Subject: RE: Bathsheba
Date: July 22, 2005 2:45:37 AM PDT
Here is the quotation I came across when investigating the grotesque, which I thought may have some relevance to your work, Pauline. It's from Stallybrass and White's ThePoetics and Politics of Transgression:
p.22/3 'Furthermore, Foucault's concentration upon the contained outsiders-who-make-the outsiders-insiders (the mad, the criminal, the sick, the unruly, the sexually transgressive) reveals just how far these outsiders are constructed by the dominant culture in terms of the grotesque body. The 'grotesque' here designates marginal, the low and the outside from the perspective of a classical body situated as high, inside and central by virtue of its very exclusions.'
I realise the 'grotesque' part may have no relevance, but I thought the former part interesting insofar as the Bethlem side of things is concerned.
Jacky
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From: pauline.guerin@ntlworld.com
Subject: RE: Bathsheba
Date: July 22, 2005 3:15:44 AM PDT
Wow, thank you Jacky, that is very interesting indeed...... it's odd how the Victorians seem to have made the outsider into an insider with a view to curing them, but they don't have the skills to do so, they then expel them from the asylum, and once more they become outsiders. Because of his crime, Boldwood is retained as an insider. Mmmm.... and the grotesque plays a large part in the madness themes as well, not so much with Boldwood, because he looks quite 'normal' but certainly with the other characters from the earlier novels, the grotesque plays a huge part in expressing their mad behaviour. The women are, it seems, never described as grotesque but always beautiful, perhaps it makes us more sympathetic towards them...
Kind regards
Pauline
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