H050548 QUOTATION SOURCE SOUGHT 6/14/05 - HARDY FORUM ARCHIVES ____________________________________________________________________________

From: segr@segr-music.net

Subject: Help track "quotation" please

Date: June 13, 2005 4:46:27 PM PDT

Dear listers, I have a puzzle for you to ponder

if you will!

I've just been making a revised recording of

my setting (vocal duet) of "The Curtains Now Are Drawn".

Possibly Hardy's most treasured memory

is described by him here although with that

agonising sequel.

The vein of hope that Love is stronger

than Death, conveyed by the words of the

refrain sung by Emma in the poem

"O the dream that I am thy Love be it thine,

And the dream that thou art my Love be it mine.

And death may come but loving is divine."

is used to lift the song to an ecstatic ending

that is perhaps not possible in a spoken recitaion

of the poem.

Be that as it may, my present worry is to identify the

ultimate source of those words. Was there a song that Emma

possessed containing them? (They have the feel of rhetoric

that might almost be Shakespearean.) I trawl endlessly with

the search engines and so far fruitlessly.

I discussed this often with Jim Gibson in the hope

of tracking it down as it seemed so unlikely that Hardy would

have made it up as a story. After all; "That song, that song.."

must have resounded in Max Gate sometimes!

I would very much like to find "that song"!

Best wishes to all.

Roy.

www.segr-music.net

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From: Rosemarie.morgan@yale.edu

Subject: Re: Help track "quotation" please

Date: June 14, 2005 3:58:39 AM PDT

Roy- have you tried Victorian popular songs -- the village hall/music hall kind? This sounds very much like the kind of sentimental jingle (Patience Strong style) which, like rock music today, saturated the popular culture -- the kind of song everyone would enjoy singing around the parlour piano.

Good Luck in your search,

Rosemarie

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From: segr@segr-music.net

Subject: RE: Help track "quotation" please

Date: June 14, 2005 4:11:54 AM PDT

To: HARDY-L@csusm.edu

Reply-To: HARDY-L@csusm.edu

Yep Rose:I've a large collection acquired during

these lengthy searches but never a trace of those

words.

Hope springs....

Nice to get yr message.

R.

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From: meryfac@hotmail.com

Subject: quotation

Date: June 14, 2005 3:45:55 PM PDT

Dear Roy...

I tried all the day long to find out something useful to resolve your puzzle, but I have not yet found anything...

I think that that lines could be part of a holy hymn, because you know that Hardy was much involved in religious music...

I scroll every single lines I have found at this site http://www.oremus.org/hymnal/ch1874.html

because the period analized here could be near at the one of Hardy's writing, but at the moment I have not any good result.

I'm really sorry for my English, but here in Milan is about 1.00 am, and I am very tired..

I'll keep on searching tomorrow

Good Luck (and Good Night!)

Maria

Ps. Many Thanks to All...you are really important for the development of my thesis about Hardy, and I'll be soon graduated!!

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From: tomlessup@hotmail.com

Subject: Re: Help track "quotation" please

Date: June 14, 2005 3:50:03 PM PDT

(They have the feel of rhetoric that might almost be Shakespearean.) <

They seem to me rather to have the rhetoric of the hymnal - cf. the work of

Charlotte Elliott, author of (among others) The

Invalid's Hymnbook (1841). Her "Just as I am, without one plea" runs on

the following pattern:

Just as I am, without one plea,

But that Thy blood was shed for me,

And that Thou bidst me come to Thee,

O Lamb of God, I come, I come.

Just as I am, Thy love unknown

Hath broken every barrier down;

Now, to be Thine, yea, Thine alone,

O Lamb of God, I come, I come.

similarly, her "My God and Father, while I stray":

Renew my will from day to day,

Blend it with Thine, and take away

All now that makes it hard to say,

"Thy will be done!"

Then when on earth I breathe no more

The prayer oft mixed with tears before,

I'll sing upon a happier shore,

"Thy will be done!"

 

 

Which makes me wonder whether although Hardy uses the thine/mine/divine

lines as a refrain in his poem, in the original song they may have been not

a refrain but the first three lines of one of the verses, each verse ending

with a similar last line. One can imagine something such as :

O the dream that I am thy Love be it thine,

And the dream that thou art my Love be it mine.

And death may come but loving is divine,

The long night outlasting.

Oh let the one that I love be the one that is thee,

And the one that you love be the one that is me,

So the one that is each becomes the one that is we,

The high day enhancing.

 

 

Tom (no poet, alas) Eldron

tomlessup@hotmail.com

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From: segr@segr-music.net

Subject: RE: Help track "quotation" please

Date: June 14, 2005 4:18:12 PM PDT

Yes Maria and Tom, and thank you.

If it was a holy original there would not

it seems to me be a suggestion of reciprocal Love,

would there?

It's a good suggestion, although my searches have

yielded a welter of religious and quasi-religious

stuff but not those words....yet!

 

Roy

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From: tomlessup@hotmail.com

Subject: Re: Help track "quotation" please

Date: June 14, 2005 4:56:25 PM PDT

>If it was a holy original there would not it seems to me be a suggestion of

>reciprocal Love<

No, indeed! I just meant to suggest that Emma's song seems more likely to

have been Victorian in origin than earlier; and perhaps that those familiar

with hymns of this kind might have felt at ease singing a parlour song that

followed a similar pattern of rhyme and metre. One can imagine the

inmates of St Juliot's Rectory gathered round the piano of a winter's

evening, tapping their feet in time to the familiar cadences - well, perhaps

not the Reverend Holder himself: you don't tap your feet in time to anything

if you suffer from gout!

Cheers

K Eldron

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