H04056 HARDY AND "MARMION" - 9/18/04 - HARDY FORUM ARCHIVES

From: ? hardycor@owl.csusm.edu

Subject: Hardy and Marmion

Date: September 18, 2004 2:33:19 PM PDT

Spurred on by Hardy's comment in the LIFE that _Marmion_ is "the most

Homeric poem in the English language," I have just finished reading that

marvellous epic of Sir Walter Scott's, so full of derring-do and chivalry.

I was quite surprised, however, to come across that familiar adage:

Oh, what a tangled web we weave,

When first we practice to deceive

In canto Canto VI, xvii. I presume this is the original source of that old

saw. Can anyone confirm this?

Best Wishes,

Betty

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From: segr@segr-music.net

Subject: RE: Hardy and Marmion

Date: September 18, 2004 2:55:17 PM PDT

I am unfamiliar with that spelling of practise, though Betty.

Was it really Sir Walter's?

Roy Buckle

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From: segr@segr-music.net

Subject: RE: Hardy and Marmion

Date: September 18, 2004 3:25:25 PM PDT

To: HARDY-L@csusm.edu

So, Betty that makes it all the more interesting.

Was your copy printed in England, or US?

Is it possible, otherwise, we have Scott to thank

for disseminating his 'outlandish' spelling?

Roy.

-----Original Message-----

From: Betty Cortus [mailto:hardycor@owl.csusm.edu]

Sent: 18 September 2004 23:06

To: HARDY-L@csusm.edu

Subject: RE: Hardy and Marmion

 

Yes, that is his spelling in my very old edition Roy. The poem is crammed

with archaisms, but I don't think that has anything to do with this.

Betty

Roy Buckle

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From: hardycor@owl.csusm.edu

Subject: RE: Hardy and Marmion

Date: September 18, 2004 3:56:02 PM PDT

No it is an English edition Roy.

The OED cites "practise" as "known from the15th c (or? late 14th c.) used

by Langland and Chaucer". So I suppose archaism does have something to do

with it after all. Perhaps Scott is emulating Spenser

Betty

So, Betty that makes it all the more interesting.

Was your copy printed in England, or US?

Is it possible, otherwise, we have Scott to thank

for disseminating his 'outlandish' spelling?

Roy.

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From: hardycor@owl.csusm.edu

Subject: RE: Hardy and Marmion

Date: September 18, 2004 4:01:37 PM PDT

Let's not forget, Roy, that Marmion is set in 1513, and its subtitle is "A

Tale of Flodden Field." So the archaism is actually quite appropriate.

Betty

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From: segr@segr-music.net

Subject: RE: Hardy and Marmion

Date: September 18, 2004 5:14:39 PM PDT

Thanks for the suggestion Betty (although I cannot quite follow the

reasoning).

Let us also take care(continuing the didactic mode)if we want to decide what

is appropriate in a belated description of history "north of the border".

One wonders how archaic would be its treatment in a Hollywood epic.

We might be faced with the interpretation of someone like

Mr Gibson (the one from "down under",as the

'Brits' would say). Exactly what language and spelling he would use

is perhaps a little off topic..

Kind regards.

Roy.

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From: ericjchristen@bluewin.ch

Subject: Marmion

Date: September 19, 2004 1:49:28 AM PDT

My old illustrated (etchings) edition of _THE POETICAL WORKS OF SIR WALTER

SCOTT_, Virtue and Co., London, 7, City Garden Row, City Road,is not dated,

but my feeling is that it was published in the 19th century. In it the two

lines are,

O, what a tangled web we weave,

When first we practise to deceive!

Yours, Eric Christen

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From: segr@segr-music.net

Subject: RE: Marmion

Date: September 19, 2004 2:43:05 AM PDT

Splendid!, Eric-

Over and out (as they say).

Roy B.

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