H04050 MAYOR OF CASTERBRIDGE COPYRIGHT QUERY - 8/5/04

H04050 MAYOR OF CASTERBRIDGE COPYRIGHT QUERY - 8/5/04 - HARDY FORUM ARCHIVES

From: ? hardycor@owl.csusm.edu

Subject: MoC Copyright Query

Date: August 5, 2004 4:08:52 PM PDT

Dear All,

I received this query today, and would be grateful if any member could

enlighten me about the copyright situation. I will forward on any

information coming to the Forum to the inquirer.

Many Thanks,

Betty

Greetings, I'm seeking information relating to any copyright that

might currently be held on the plot in Thomas Hardy's "The Mayor of

Casterbridge". I am in the process of writing a novel set in County

Wexford (Ireland) in the 1830s. Though nothing is lifted verbatim from the

original, it is essentially an "adaptation" of Hardy's classic. Though the

sub-plots differ somewhat and all my characters naturally speak in Wexford

dialect (rather than Dorset), the 'core' plot-line is essentially the same

as the original. My publisher recommended that I investigate whether

there is currently copyright on said plot before I proceed. Thus, I would

be greatly obliged to yourselves for any information you can offer in this

regard. Kind regards, Ronan Scanlan, Dublin, Ireland.

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From: segr@segr-music.net

Subject: RE: MoC Copyright Query

Date: August 5, 2004 4:45:53 PM PDT

Betty! What an extraordinary idea.

No suggestions to offer yet except that the Japanese society might have

had a go at producing the Hardy story and would then know

of any legal objections with *international* effect.

It does sound like plagiarism to me, so I think that might be said

on our behalf?

Roy Buckle.

www.segr-music.net

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From: goldie.morgentaler@uleth.ca

Subject: Re: MoC Copyright Query

Date: August 6, 2004 7:49:55 AM PDT

Dear All,

I am not a lawyer and so have no expertise on this very interesting

question, but it seems to me that it should not be possible to copyright a

plot. There are only so many plots in the world and if all that is being

taken is the bare-bones plot of M of C, then I don't think this is an

issue of palgiarism. The movie "The Claim" of a few years ago also took

Hardy's plot and adapted it. If all the author is doing is taking the

bones of plot and rewriting the rest then it seems to me that there is no

problem, especially if the work is clearly intended as an adaptation. I

would be very interested in knowing what the law actually says about this..

But it seems to me that copyrighting a plot by itself cannot be done.

Goldie Morgentaler

University of Lethbridge

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From: hardycor@owl.csusm.edu

Subject: Mayor Copyright Question

Date: August 6, 2004 9:42:14 AM PDT

Dear All,

Further to my message of yesterday, here is some more information from the

writer who is working on a novel with a plot similar to *The Mayor of

Casterbridge.* I found his rationale fascinating, but I still do not have

a definitive answer to his question. I've also appended my response to his

original query.

Betty

Betty, Your assistance is very much appreciated. I must rent out

that film "The Claim" as it sounds interesting. Hardy wrote The Mayor of

Casterbridge about 130 years ago so it's likely that any plot copyright

has long expired. And as Hardy had no children, it is less likely to have

been renewed than was the case with, say, J.R.R. Tolkien's literature

(renewed by his son in 1990). However, it will be helpful to have it

confirmed before proceeding with publication. It's eerie how much the

Wexford town of Castlebridge has in common with Dorchester

(Casterbridge). It had a thriving barley business before the repeal of the

corn laws and there's even a river nearby called "The Blackwater".

Coincidence or what? So thanks in advance for any info that you'll

forward on. Kind regards, Ronan Scanlan.

----- Original Message ----- From: Betty Cortus To: Ronan

Scanlan Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 12:10 AM Subject: Re:

Dear Ronan,

I will pass your query along to the Hardy List, and will forward any

information to you that comes in regarding copyright. Have you perchance

seen the film *The Claim*? It draws from the basic plot of *The Mayor*

but locates the scenario in the western United states during the Gold

Rush days. A discussion of this film on the Hardy Forum several years back

was quite positive, and no mention was made of copyright violation.

Best Wishes,

Betty Cortus

HARDY-L Director

hardycor@owl.csusm.edu

==========

From: sdallas74@hotmail.com

Subject: RE: Mayor Copyright Question

Date: August 6, 2004 10:06:03 AM PDT

Hi all,

I work in copyright and permissions at a publishing house in California and so have some expertise on the matter. Copyright protection expires after 75 years of publication, so Hardy's work is most definitely in the public domain. Facts, ideas, plot lines, etc. are not eligible for copyright protection, so there would be no infringement worries in adapting the MoC plot. In these cases at our publishing house, we make sure the authors of the new work clearly credit somewhere in their publication the original source for the ideas. And as long as the adaptation is truly an adaptation and does not use significant chunks verbatim of original text, a simple credit or acknowledgement line should suffice.

Thanks,

Sarah Harkrader

From: Betty Cortus <hardycor@owl.csusm.edu>

Reply-To: HARDY-L@csusm.edu

To: HARDY-L <HARDY-L@csusm.edu>

Subject: Mayor Copyright Question

Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 09:42:14 -0700

Dear All,

Further to my message of yesterday, here is some more information from the

writer who is working on a novel with a plot similar to *The Mayor of

Casterbridge.* I found his rationale fascinating, but I still do not have

a definitive answer to his question. I've also appended my response to his

original query.

Betty

Betty, Your assistance is very much appreciated. I must rent out

that film "The Claim" as it sounds interesting. Hardy wrote The Mayor of

Casterbridge about 130 years ago so it's likely that any plot copyright

has long expired. And as Hardy had no children, it is less likely to have

been renewed than was the case with, say, J.R.R. Tolkien's literature

(renewed by his son in 1990). However, it will be helpful to have it

confirmed before proceeding with publication. It's eerie how much the

Wexford town of Castlebridge has in common with Dorchester

(Casterbridge). It had a thriving barley business before the repeal of the

corn laws and there's even a river nearby called "The Blackwater".

Coincidence or what? So thanks in advance for any info that you'll

forward on. Kind regards, Ronan Scanlan.

==========

From: Jcphardysoc@aol.com

Subject: Re: Mayor Query

Date: August 6, 2004 3:42:08 PM PDT

I believe that under European Community law (which would apply to the Irish Republic), copyright exists for 70 years after an author's death, or 70 years after publication for works published posthumously such as most of Hardy's letters.

John Pentney

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From: Charles.Anesi@wellsfargo.com

Subject: RE: Mayor Query

Date: August 6, 2004 4:33:13 PM PDT

U.S. Copyright law was amended in 1998, extending the term of copyright by 20 years. Currently it is for the life of the offer plus 70 years, and for works done for hire 95 years from first publication or 120 from creation, whichever comes first. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonny_Bono_Copyright_Term_Extension_Act for further discussion. The extension was (in truth) passed to protect Disney characters from entering the public domain, and thus the act is commonly known as the "Mickey Mouse Act". The Supreme Court upheld this against constitutional challenge on 1/15/2003. The U.S. Constitution Art. I sec.8 provides that Congress may ""promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries." Question was what constitutes a "limited time". Dicta indicates that further extensions will probably not be tolerated. The Act did NOT revive copyrights that had already expired.

U.S. infringement test is "substantial similarity" which requires a bit of reading to grasp. There is an interesting contrast to patent law. Under patent law, independent creation is no defense to a patent infringement claim (though it might have some weight in showing the discovery to be obvious to a person skilled in the art and thus not patentable). But independent creation is an absolute defense to a copyright infringement claim. Of course, if the similarity is striking, you might have trouble with such a defense. An interesting case of this sort occurred with a French novel that had striking similarities to H. Rider Haggard's *She*. Infringement action failed when it was clearly shown that the French author had no knowledge of Haggard's work.

I am a lawyer but not a copyright lawyer, so I can't answer arcane questions about this, and do not rely on anything whatsoever that I have said in this email.

Chuck Anesi

Charles.Anesi@wellsfargo.com

office 612-667-9518

cell 612-940-3345

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From: patmann@ouvip.com

Subject: Re: Mayor Query

Date: August 6, 2004 11:43:30 PM PDT

I can second this. It used to be 50 years after an author's death until approximately 5-6 years ago. I looked into it before the two Hardy sequels I'd written were published.

Patricia Dolling-Mann

From: Jcphardysoc@aol.com

Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 11:42 PM

Subject: Re: Mayor Query

John Pentney

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From: hardycor@owl.csusm.edu

Subject: More on Mayor Adaptation

Date: August 7, 2004 6:42:59 AM PDT

Dear All,

Thanks once again to all who offered information on the copyright question.

I thought you might be intrigued to learn of some more parallels between

Hardy's novel and the one Ronan Scanlan has written, or at least the

settings of the two. I'm copying his most recent message below.

Betty

Betty, Those responses are extremely helpful. And thanks for your

interest in my adaptation. Unfortunately, an internet search on the string

"Mayor of Castlebridge" already delivers hits, but this is wholly due to a

lack of attention to detail in spelling the correct name of the Hardy

original! To the best of my knowledge, there is as yet no novel titled "The

Mayor of Castlebridge" (well, until next year D.V.). And just for your

interest, here's more coincidences for you. Trivial but interesting...

1. Wexford has a village called 'Kilmuckridge' (lit. Church of

'Muckridge'). Hardy has a character 'Nance Mockridge'. 2. Four common

Wexford surnames are Hendrick, Bulger, Stafford and Wickham. Hardy has a

Henchard, Bulge, Stannidge & Whittle. 3. Castlebridge had a "Codd's

Walk" and a "Dixon Lane". Hardy mentions a "Chalk Walk" and a "Mixen

Lane". 4. Castlebridge is about 4 miles from the Wexford

coast, Dorchester a like distance from the Wessex coast. 5. Wexford has

a Wellingtonbridge. Hardy's Wessex has a Wellbridge. 6. Broadwey is

close to Weymouth harbour, Broadway close to Rosslare Harbour. It's

crazy!!! Regards, Ronan.

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From: Jcphardysoc@aol.com

Subject: Re: Mayor Query

Date: August 8, 2004 3:01:15 PM PDT

The result of extending copyright from 50 years (strictly 50 years from the end of the year in which the author died) to 70 years was to bring Hardy's writings back into copyright again for a few years, after they had come into the public domain on 1 January 1979.. The 70 year period has now expired of course for Hardy.

John Pentney

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From: hardycor@owl.csusm.edu

Subject: More on Copyright

Date: August 14, 2004 9:42:31 AM PDT

Dear All,

Ronan Scanlan who is writing a novel based loosely on the plot of *The

Mayor of Casterbridge* has asked me to thank all who gave information

about the copyright situation in Europe and the US. However, he now would

like to know if different rules apply in Canada. I will forward any

information on to him.

Many Thanks,

Betty Cortus

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