HARDY FORUM ARCHIVE H03058 7/6/03 "HARDY WINDOW AND CORNISH CONNECTIONS"
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From: "Patrick Roper" <patrick@prassociates.co.uk>
Subject: Boscastle Hardy window
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 17:00:00 +0100
Someone has told me that "in Boscastle church today they are unveiling a
window to mark T Hardy's connexion with Cornwall via Emma." Apparently this
was on BBC Radio 3.
I am mentioning something everyone already knows?
Patrick Roper
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From: "Patrick Roper" <patrick@prassociates.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Boscastle Hardy window
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 17:45:34 +0100
Update - it is all here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/3028880.stm
Patrick Roper
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Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 11:06:42 +0100
From: Martin Ray <m.ray@abdn.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: Friends of St Juliot
A couple of days ago, there was a query about the Friends of St Juliot, and I shall print below an extract from this year's annual report to give an idea of the kind of work which the Friends do.
If you would like to join, please e-mail me for an electronic copy of the application form.
Many thanks,
Martin
FRIENDS OF ST JULIOT
Annual Newsletter and Report, June 2003
The aim of the Friends is to maintain and foster contact with St Juliot Church, and to raise funds to assist with the important restoration of the building.
The subscription membership has remained static at 42, and we were grateful to receive numerous generous donations in addition to subscriptions. Gift Aid added £327 from tax-payersâ contributions, and the total contribution from the Friends amounted to £1484.
When the Revd. Canon John Ayling retired last autumn, he was able to do so with satisfaction at having presided over a large portion of our restoration effort at St Juliot Church. We wish him and his wife a long and happy retirement.
We were fortunate in welcoming our new Priest-in-Charge, the Revd. Christine Musser, in February after a very short interregnum. She will replace John as a Trustee, as she and the Churchwardens are responsible for the management of the Church and its finances.
The urgent window repairs are now completed, thanks to the money raised by The Friends over the past three years. The one remaining unsound window is in process of being replaced by the new Hardy Memorial window, and hopefully will be dedicated by the Bishop of Truro in early July. This promises to be a wonderful addition to the fabric of the Church.
The year 2002 saw major improvements, both by the replacement of window lead, which also involved some masonry repairs, and also by the replacement of the collapsed chancel floor, which had become a danger to clergy celebrating Communion. Local Delabole slate was used, to match that in the rest of the Church. It just needs a hundred years of nailed boots to wear it to a matching patina!
The year 2003 is scheduled to rewire the electrical system, with new lights. The present system is close to 50 years old, and replaced the old oil lamps. Also, we are still trying to identify the source of wet in the tower, and await a builder to re-lead the gulleys and repoint some stonework in the battlements.
After those works are completed we must deal with the crack in the south-west corner of the Church, which is slowly enlarging. ÎA stitch in timeâ is our maxim in this case. Our architect is not alarmed, but does advise early action rather than late, if we can afford it. Otherwise, the architect thinks St Juliot is quite a sound, well-kept Church of its kind, compared to many in similar rural and poor areas.
Dr Martin Ray
School of English
University of Aberdeen
Aberdeen AB24 3UB
m.ray@abdn.ac.uk
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From: "Gary Alderson" <Gary.Alderson@btinternet.com>
Subject: St Juliot
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 23:06:10 +0100
I was planning to go and see the new window at St Juliot's while I'm staying nearby soon, but the recent correspondence about it got me thinking about the dedication. After digging around a bit I found in my book of Celtic Saints that Juliot (aka Juliana) was a daughter of the king of the area around the Brecon beacons. As well as St Juliot's, she also had a chapel dedicated to her as St Juliet at Tintagel. All so far quite simple, but the dedication of Luxulyan church is to SS Julitta and Cyr. These are a mother-and-son pair of saints and definitely non-Celtic, being Turkish (although of cause Galatia had Celtic connections). And some people seem to have assumed that Juliot and Julitta of Luxulyan are one and the same - there are references to a (Celtic) Juliot of Luxulyan. Apparently the total number of sons and daughters attributed to the aforementioned king (Brychan) runs well into the twenties or thirties, so maybe Juliot's parentage was invented to give a Celtic heritage to a Turkish saint. Anyway, the reason I bring all this up is the presence in A Pair of Blue Eyes of Lord Luxellian. Did the coincidence of the dedications of the two churches inspire Hardy to give that nobleman his name? He visited that area, so probably knew the dedication and may have put two and two together. Anyway, just a thought. Or maybe I should get out more. Gary Alderson
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From: "Patrick Roper" <patrick@prassociates.co.uk>
Subject: RE: St Juliot
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:49:44 +0100
Gary Alderson wrote: I found in my book of Celtic Saints that Juliot (aka Juliana) was a daughter of the king of the area around the Brecon beacons. As well as St Juliot's, she also had a chapel dedicated to her as St Juliet at Tintagel etc. This seems to be about as good a summary of the situation as one can give since little more seems to be known about the one (or many) St. Juliot(s). Quite a few British saints did, however, appear in thew Orthodox calendar from an early date, hence possibly some confusion with persons from Turkey and places nearby. One health warning though: many cornish 'Saints' were back formed in relatively recent times from 'Lan...' placenames in which Cornwall abounds and any saint attributed should be treated with caution unless there is some corroborating evidence. A St. Nectan appears to have been Juliot's sister and he supposedly gave his name to St. Nectan's Kieve near Tintagel, another place and person known to TH. Much of the story of Nectan and goings on in the Kieve were invented by Robert Hawker, Vicar of Morwenstow, who was, I believe, known to the Gifford family at St. Juliot. Despite this 19thC fantasy, one or more St Nectan's do appear to have exisited in the Dark Ages. TH, of course, mentions Nectan and his Kieve in The Famous Tragedy of the Queen of Cornwall (as Neitan, or similar - there are several spellings). What it would be good to know is what knowledge and interest TH and/or Emma and her relatives had of Cornish history and language. The so-called Celtic Revival that had got going in Scotland at the end of the 18th century and had been boosted in the mid-19th by Lady Charlotte Guest's translation of the Welsh 'Mabinogion' reached Cornwall in a substantial way with Henry Jenner who did much research into Cornish language and history in the 1870s when TH was frequently visiting St Juliot and writing 'A Pair of Blue Eyes'. Also Robert Hunt had, in 1865, published his 'Popular Romances of the West of England; or The Drolls, Traditions and Superstitions of Old Cornwall' which demonstrated that the Duchy shared many stories and tale types with other Celtic areas. One wonders if this had any influence on TH or Emma. TH and Emma might also have had some knowledge of the meaning of various Cornish placenames. Craig Weatherhill in his 'Cornish Place Names and Language' (1995) says Luxulyan comes from Middle Cornish 'lok Sulyen', "Sulyan's chapel/cell". He adds "The personal name is an ancient one, from Brythonic 'sulo-genos', 'sun-born'" To me that seems to fit quite well with PBE. Another speculation is that Hardy might have known of the idea that 'Lanivet' (according to Weatherhill) comes from Old Cornish 'lan neved' meaning 'church site on a pagan sacred site'. My knowing this adds an interesting dimension to my reading of TH's poem 'Near Lanivet 1872'. Trouble is I don't know if Hardy and/or Emma knew any of this Cornish stuff, so my ramblings are all in the speculative area. Patrick Roper
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From: "Gary1" <wesspix1@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: St Juliot
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 23:06:29 +0100
Hawker was a good friend of Emma's brother-in-law, Mr Holder, the vicar of St Juliot, according to Early Life. Nectan himself has a church dedicated to him at Welcombe in Devon, about 15 miles up the coast from St Juliot. Gary Alderson
A St. Nectan appears to have been Juliot's sister and he supposedly gave his name to St. Nectan's Kieve near Tintagel, another place and person known to TH. Much of the story of Nectan and goings on in the Kieve were invented by Robert Hawker, Vicar of Morwenstow, who was, I believe, known to the Gifford family at St. Juliot. Despite this 19thC fantasy, one or more St Nectan's do appear to have exisited in the Dark Ages. TH, of course, mentions Nectan and his Kieve in The Famous Tragedy of the Queen of Cornwall (as Neitan, or similar - there are several spellings). What it would be good to know is what knowledge and interest TH and/or Emma and her relatives had of Cornish history and language. The so-called Celtic Revival that had got going in Scotland at the end of the 18th century and had been boosted in the mid-19th by Lady Charlotte Guest's translation of the Welsh 'Mabinogion' reached Cornwall in a substantial way with Henry Jenner who did much research into Cornish language and history in the 1870s when TH was frequently visiting St Juliot and writing 'A Pair of Blue Eyes'. Also Robert Hunt had, in 1865, published his 'Popular Romances of the West of England; or The Drolls, Traditions and Superstitions of Old Cornwall' which demonstrated that the Duchy shared many stories and tale types with other Celtic areas. One wonders if this had any influence on TH or Emma. TH and Emma might also have had some knowledge of the meaning of various Cornish placenames. Craig Weatherhill in his 'Cornish Place Names and Language' (1995) says Luxulyan comes from Middle Cornish 'lok Sulyen', "Sulyan's chapel/cell". He adds "The personal name is an ancient one, from Brythonic 'sulo-genos', 'sun-born'" To me that seems to fit quite well with PBE. Another speculation is that Hardy might have known of the idea that 'Lanivet' (according to Weatherhill) comes from Old Cornish 'lan neved' meaning 'church site on a pagan sacred site'. My knowing this adds an interesting dimension to my reading of TH's poem 'Near Lanivet 1872'. Trouble is I don't know if Hardy and/or Emma knew any of this Cornish stuff, so my ramblings are all in the speculative area. Patrick Roper
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From: "Patrick Roper" <patrick@prassociates.co.uk>
Subject: RE: St Juliot
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:36:55 +0100
Gary Alderson wrote: Hawker was a good friend of Emma's brother-in-law, Mr Holder, the vicar of St Juliot, according to Early Life. Nectan himself has a church dedicated to him at Welcombe in Devon, about 15 miles up the coast from St Juliot. Thanks for that Gary. The whole story of the one or more early medieval Nectan(s) is complicated and still not properly understood. 'Nectan' is, for example, generally thought to be Pictish name. There is a good deal of information on St Nectan in Cornwall and Devon, including the various fantasies concocted by Hawker (fantasies he later admitted to) in a little book called 'St Nectan's Glen. Its History & Legends' edited by Kelvin I. Jones (Oakmagic Books, Penzance 2001). He draws in this on material from 'The Cultus of Nectan' by Charles Henderson in St. Nectan, St Keyne & The Children of Brychan in Cornwall" by G. H. Doble (1925) and 'St Nectan' also by G. H. Doble (The Devonshire Press, Torquay, 1940). A Nectan also seems to have had some sort of cult in the Cheddar area and connected with Glastonbury. Patrick Roper
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From: "Patrick Roper" <patrick@prassociates.co.uk
Subject: Lanivet again
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:06:10 +0100
The other day I wrote: "Another speculation is that Hardy might have known
of the idea that 'Lanivet' ... comes from Old Cornish 'lan neved' meaning
'church site on a pagan sacred site'. My knowing this adds an interesting
dimension to my reading of TH's poem 'Near Lanivet 1872'. Trouble is I
don't know if Hardy and/or Emma knew any of this Cornish stuff, so my
ramblings are all in the speculative area."
I have today discovered an interesting extra dimension relating to this.
First, the linguists seem to be agreed that the 'nivet/neved' part of
'Lanivet' comes from pre-Saxon Brittonic and is cognate with 'nymet' (found
in places like King's Nympton in Devon) and 'nemeton', a word found widely
in the pre-Christian Celtic-speaking world and meaning 'a sacred grove' or
similar.
As many will know, one of TH's closest friends was Edward Clodd who was
president of the Folk-Lore Society in the late 19th C. In 1896 he asserted
that "many medieval churches had been built on or near former pagan shrines,
providing 'unbroken evidence of the pagan foundation which, itself resting
upon barbaric bedrock, upholds the structures of classical and Christian
faiths.'" Clodd may have known of the origin of 'Lanivet' and I am sure
this was one of the sorts of things he would have talked about with TH as he
knew of both his interest in folk-lore and in Cornwall. It is clearly
likely that some of Clodd's ideas were absorbed and remembered by Hardy and,
since 'Near Lanivet 1872' was written (I think) after 1896, one wonders if
Clodd had mentioned to TH this was a place that illustrated his theory.
Patrick Roper
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Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 10:51:23 +0100
Subject: Re: Lanivet again
From: philip irwin <philip.irwin@btinternet.com>
: list
Status:
I'm not sure how far we can accept that the second element in the place-name
'Lanivet' is cognate with the pan-Celtic nymet/nemed/neved etc.
First, the general (though not universal) rule of Lan/Llan ('church')
place-names is that the second element refers to the saint(s) to whom the
church was dedicated. While the current Oxford Dictionary of English
Place-Names, an authoritative work not to be ignored, interprets the second
element as 'pagan sacred place', Ekwall's magisterial (though earlier)
dictionary considers this etymology but prefers to regard the second element
as the name of a St 'Nivet'.
Secondly, the Celtic Christians, like the Anglo-Saxons after conversion,
lacked any historical or sentimental attachment to the vestiges of
pre-Christian religion - they were of course much closer to paganism, and
considered it both uncivilised and diabolical: it was not something to be
deliberately recalled in a place-name. Therefore, if the English Place-Names
etymology is correct, then by the time the name 'Lanivet' came into being,
the pagan connotations of the word must have vanished for the Cornish - I
would conjecture that by this point it may have just meant the more neutral
'shrine'.
None of this, of course, is likely to have had any bearing on TH's view of
the placename!
Philip Irwin
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From: "Patrick Roper" <patrick@prassociates.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Lanivet again
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 15:19:04 +0100
Phillip,
There is much valuable information in what you say below, but it does seem
that there were a number of nemetons on the West Country whose presence has
persisted in placenames regardless of any Celtic Christian attitude towards
their earlier paganism.
There is, for example, a fascinating map in Nora Chadwick's 'The Druids'
(University of Wales Press, Cardiff, 1997), a map which I think she got from
Anne Ross, which shows many 'nemeton' place names in the Taw Valley area of
Devon. These include King's Nympton, Bishop's Nympton, Nymet House, the
Nymet Mole river and more. The possibility that they are derived from the
'nemeton' word is stregthened by the fact that there is a Roman marching
station in the southern part of this area called 'Nemetostatio'.
This was rather off the beaten track for the Romans and one cannot help
wondering if there was some troublesome Celtic power-centre in the Taw
Valley, much as there was on Anglesey. Interestingly, Nemetostatio was
close to what is the A30 trunk road through to Cornwall today and Lanivet is
on this same road.
I do agree, however, that the meaning of the names of all these places may
well have been forgotten by the time they reached their modern form. As
with ourselves though, there could have been some interesting conversations
between TH and his friends as research of various kinds started to bring the
distant past of the country into sharper focus.
Patrick Roper
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From: "Helen Gibson" <helen.gibson@ukgateway.net>
Subject: Thomas Hardy window: St Juliot
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 10:57:27 +0100
Greetings to everyone,
Following the earlier mention of this new window at St Juliot, I thought I would just make a brief report about it.
In the year 2000 the Hardy Society set up a St Juliot Window appeal fund to supplement the restoration work on the church and so that there would be a memorial window to Thomas Hardy. The response was excellent the first £100 was donated at 2000 Conference, and there was a generous response to the launch of the appeal in the Thomas Hardy Journal . Thanks to the generosity of many individuals from TTHA and THS and other literary societies, and to a Lottery Grant, we were able to commission Simon Whistler to design and engrave this window.
On Saturday 5th July 2003 the window was unveiled. The result is magnificent a sparkling clear glass window with delicate and beautiful engraving telling the story of Hardy s relationship with St Juliot and his meeting with Emma. There are 3 panels and 2 small lights above. In one of the latter is depicted the sun and in the other the moon and night sky.
The top of the centre panel shows St Juliot church with Hardy s name above and below it, and at the top of the side panels are the tools of his trades, on the left - items from his writing desk, and on the right the measuring rules etc of architecture the birth date being on the left and the death date to the right.
The centre panel tells the story of the journey from Dorset to Cornwall, depicting the hills and valleys, rivers, railways and roads leading to trees and an open gate. Below in an uncannily good representation of Hardy s handwriting are lines from When I set out for Lyonesse .
The left panel shows the rolling Cornish landscape, with the Vallency valley and its many waterfalls, leading to lines from Under the Waterfall , and the right panel shows most delicately the phantom horsewoman silhouetted in clear glass on Beeny Cliff with, in Hardy s hand, O the opal and the sapphire of that wandering western sea &.
But, all this must sound very confusing my main message is go and see it if you possibly can, and thank you to everyone who contributed.
There will be a fuller report and some photos on the Hardy Society website in a week or two www.hardysociety.org which I commend to you.
With good wishes,
Helen Gibson
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From: "Gary Alderson" <Gary.Alderson@btinternet.com>
Subject: Hardy Window, Hawker & Morwenstow
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 23:22:54 +0100
Firstly, to anyone who had anything to do with the installation of the new window in St Juliot, thanks and well done. It is beautiful, and the selection of verses are well-chosen. The representations of the incidents in Hardy & Emma's romance are excellently chosen and depicted.
Secondly - did Hardy ever meet Hawker of Morwenstow? I mentioned his brief reference to Hawker in Early Life, but a few things struck me while reading over Hawker's life (staying just outside the parish); like Mr Swancourt, Hawker was highly intolerant of Dissenters; like Lord Luxellian he was apparently dissatisfied with his (second) wife's producing only daughers. And like Elfride, he had an interest in Arthurian legend. Also, if Hardy had visited Morwenstow, it might explain the way that Endelstow church is much closer to the ocean in A Pair of Blue Eyes than St Juliot is in reality. SS Morwenna and John the Baptist church is in a really dramatic location next to the cliffs; if its tower fell, the view out to sea would be remarkably like the scene in APOBE where Knight and Elfride have a disagreement in the church. On the other hand, the most striking of Hawker's interests seems to have been burying shipwrecked sailors (not the survivors), and one would have expected Hardy, if they had met, to have borrowed the material for use at some point. Gary Alderson
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From: "Angela Bell" <AngelaBell@hardyholidays.demon.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Hardy Window
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 07:17:32 +0100
Pictures of the new window at St Juliot and details of the Cornish Weekend are now online at www.hardysociety.org/newsandprojects.htm.
(Please click on pictures for an enlargement)
Regards
Angela Bell
Press & Publicity Officer
The Thomas Hardy Society
AngelaBell@hardyholidays.demon.co.uk
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Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 09:30:21 -0700
From: Betty Cortus <hardycor@owl.csusm.edu>
Subject: RE: Hardy Window
Dear Angela,
Thank you for letting us know about this. The window is beautiful, and it
is a great pleasure for those of us unable to see it first-hand to be able
to view it this way.
Best Wishes,
Betty Cortus
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From: "Gary Alderson" <Gary.Alderson@btinternet.com>
Subject: Hardy Window
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 20:13:11 +0100
If anyone's interested; you can visit my pictures I took of the Hardy window at St Juliot on: http://www.wesspix.btinternet.co.uk/hardywsj.htm Apologies for the lack of legibility in the words, but it's incredibly difficult to capture this lovely window with a photograph - you really have to be there. By the way, does anyone know what the copyright is on a window? rgds Gary Alderson
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Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 09:25:47 -0700
From: Betty Cortus <hardycor@owl.csusm.edu>
Subject: Re: Hardy Window
I loved your photos of the window Gary. They are even more detailed than
the one I looked at earlier. I have bookmarked the site so that I can go
back and look at them from time to time.
Thanks for sharing them,
Betty Cortus
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From: Thudecki@cs.com
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 16:30:37 EDT
Subject: Re: Hardy Window
Gary, Thank you for the great pictures of the Hardy window at St. Juliot.
Your site is quite interesting as well. I will further explore the entire site at
a later date when I have more time.
Sincerely, Janine
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From: "Martin Hemming" <mhemming@lineone.net>
Subject: Re: Hardy Window
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 08:05:07 +0100
Excellent web site Gary! Your reverence for Hardy shines through in your irreverent synopses. Such a joy to see a Hardy-lover's take on every novel in a single resource. Martin Hemming
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Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 22:43:13 -0400
From: Robert Schweik <schweikr@localnet.com>
Subject: RE: Hardy Window
From someone who was unable to take part in that magical Cornish weekend, to
Angela Bell, many thanks!
Bob Schweik
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