HARDY FORUM ARCHIVE HO3029 5/5/03 "DEFINING THE WORD LUSH"
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Date: Mon, 05 May 2003 23:49:01 -0400
From: Robert Schweik <schweikr@localnet.com>
Subject: The word "lush"
I've recently had correspondence with an editor about a chapter I'll
contribute to a book published by a major UK press. At one point in
that chapter I spoke about a film which, in press releases
about it, references were made to what I described as "Kate Winslet's
lush nudity." The editor's comment on my use of the word "lush" was this:
"DANGEROUS WORD! CP. JOYCE ON LAWRENCE ALSO
UNDERGRADUATE, EVEN SCHOOLBOY SLANG IN BRITAIN"
Could any of you out there who have been UK undergraduates, or
schoolboys, give me a clue as to what my editor is warning me
about? I'm afraid that I've never come across undergraduate or
schoolboy slang uses of "lush." Nor do I remember anything by Joyce
on Lawrence relating to the word "lush"--though I'm sure there must be
such that I do not recall.
And, if I must forgo "lush," I'd appreciate suggestions for any
alternative phrasings.
Bob Schweik
schweik@fredonia.edu schweikr@localnet.com
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Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 14:35:32 +1000
From: Bob Gingold <bob.gingold@anu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: The word "lush"
; padding-bottom: 0 } -->" Bob
The editor's comment on my use of the word "lush" was this:
"DANGEROUS WORD! CP. JOYCE ON LAWRENCE ALSO
UNDERGRADUATE, EVEN SCHOOLBOY SLANG IN BRITAIN"
Could any of you out there who have been UK undergraduates, or
schoolboys, give me a clue as to what my editor is warning me
about?
The OED doesn't seem to have any modern meaning that is 'dangerous'.
It does have a Hardy quote:
d. transf. and fig. Also, luxurious; of a woman: sexually attractive.
1851 MRS. BROWNING Casa Guidi Wind. I. 1088 Mow this green lush
falseness to the roots. 1891 T. HARDY Tess II. 55 The æsthetic,
sensuous, pagan pleasure in natural life and lush womanhood.
I think it may mean a women of very loose sexual 'morals' in the
UK - a mix of the drunken meanings of lush and the above?
Bob
--
Dr Bob Gingold
Head, Supercomputer Facility APAC National Facility
URL: http://anusf.anu.edu.au http://nf.apac.edu.au/
E-mail: bob.gingold@anu.edu.au
Phone: + 61 (02) 6125 3437 Fax: + 61 (02) 6125 8199
Postal Address:
ANU Supercomputer Facility
Australian National University
Leonard Huxley Building B56
Mills Rd, Canberra, ACT 0200
Australia
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Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 01:03:38 -0400
From: Rosemarie Morgan <rosemarie.morgan@yale.edu>
Subject: Re: The word "lush"
Dear Bob-- a "lush" can be a slang term for a fabulous "gay"- usually
luxuriant, satins-n'silks, fishnet stockings, glossy make-up, glittering
eyelids and scarlet lipstick. A truly gorgeous transvestite.
(soorry . .)
Rosemarie
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From: "Richard Nemesvari" <rnemesva@stfx.ca>
Subject: Re: The word "lush"
Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 10:35:04 -0300
I want to thank Rosemarie for expanding my vocabulary today. I had no idea
that "lush" had the denotation/connotation she describes. That being said,
I'm tempted to suggest that Bob stick to his guns. Having seen Kate Winslet
do nude scenes in a couple of movies, I'd have to say that "lush" is a good
word to evoke the contrast between her and the stick-figure standard of
beauty which seems to dominate Hollywood. Of course this is partly because
my North American idiom doesn't include (or didn't include until just now)
the implication Rosemarie provided. And while to describe Winslet as
"luscious" might achieve something close to the same thing, it sounds a
little too dated - like a description that might have been applied
salaciously to Marilyn Munroe or Jayne Mansfield.
"Lush" has a perfectly appropriate and established meaning, and surely the
context of Bob's discussion would help preclude the colloquial one from
intruding. Whenever my students encounter the word "queer" in a text
nowadays they have a tendency to break into giggles, but I don't think that
means we should abandon its meaning of "strange" and "unusual." And don't
even get me started on what happens when a character in a Victorian novel
declares he is going to "knock up" someone, although since that has probably
become an anachronism it may be a different case.
Richard Nemesvari
Department of English
St. Francis Xavier University
rnemesva@stfx.ca
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Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 14:44:52 +0100 (BST)
From: gary.alderson@btinternet.com
Subject: Fw: Re: The word "lush"
Apart from the normal slang meaning of "alcoholic", when I was round about 18,
"lush" was a shortened version of "luscious" and could be applied to members
of either sex (preferably by members of the opposite sex - people in Luton
didn't approve of that kind of carrying-on...) This was in the early 80s,
so quite a while after the era of Marilyn Monroe.
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From: "K Eldron" <kaffi@onetel.net.uk>
Subject: Re: The word "lush"
Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 15:11:39 +0100
Your editor is being ludicrously over-sensitive. Joyce's criticism was
of Lady Chatterley's Lover, its prose was lush,' its English sloppy,'
and its pornography 'imitation' - ie, he thought the work not only badly
written, but over-written (purple prose). Are we, because of this particular
instance of lush being used pejoratively, never to be able to use the word
again? As for the slang use referred to, I've never come across it.
The informal use of lush in Britain is most commonly as it always has
been: it refers to drink and drunkards. I'm not doubting the usage
that Rosemarie quotes, only that it has the air of being a coterie word
- ie, gay slang, used in an affectionate, admiring way. I'm afraid
your average British schoolboy is still pretty homophobic (or at least
easily embarrassed by over-the-top sexual display from transvestites
of any gender), so he is most unlikely to refer to an outrageous queen,
however gorgeous, with such approval ! I think your editor's train
of thought is "Lush was used by (sexually frank) Joyce about (sexually
frank) Lawrence's (sexually frank) Lady C. And some smutty-minded
British schoolboys and undergrads use it too! And it's associated
with drunks! And Mr Schweik is going to link it to Ms Winslett in
the nude! Gosh, she'll sue the pants off us." Stick with it.
If you have to surrender, there's always generous or abundant or
Renoiresque, all of which seem to me fair descriptions of the
splendid Ms W. K Eldron kaffi@onetel.net.uk PS To be fair to
your editor, she may also have had to wade through a [s]lush-pile
of unsolicited romantic manuscripts in the modern vein where lush
and pubic hair go together like, well, love & marriage in the
old-style romantic mss. Enough to put anyone off the word
for life.
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Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 09:26:24 -0500
From: Bill Morgan <wwmorgan@mail.ilstu.edu>
Subject: Re: Fw: Re: The word "lush"
Bob,
Given the dangers of using "lush," perhaps you could speak safely of Kate
Winslett's "luxuriant" sexuality?
Bill
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Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 11:29:47 -0400
From: Rosemarie Morgan <rosemarie.morgan@yale.edu>
Subject: Re: Fw: Re: The word "lush"
Yes-- this is a Hardy word after all!
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From: "harrybatt" <harrybatt@mn.rr.com>
Subject: More "lush"
Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 10:34:07 -0500
s:
Two points here: First: I always go looking in The Lore and Language
of School Children, Iona & Peter Opie, for any word, expression,
or game involving children. Lush is surprisingly not indexed.
Second: When all else fails, I check with my public school man, Nige,
in Sussex who uses the word "posh" and vernacular of that ilk.
Here is what he has to say about the the editor's suspicions:
<I do remember a senior boy at school who was referred to as 'lush'
and I think he was 'bent' LOL I always associate it as possibly to
do with 'luscious' as in lips, when not thinking of the green green
grass of home. Or occasionally when one is referring to a 'dandy' or
someone who dresses 'over the top'. But I wouldn't use it with reference
to her nudity even if it was profuse.> I can't say that I don't agree
with Nige. When it comes to nudes, they are either rawhide nudes or artsy
in my book. I do make an exception for Bond's group of lush women, led in
the field of lusciousness by Maryam d'Abo. John Bridell Minneapolis,
Minnesota, USA
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From: "Gary Alderson" <Gary.Alderson@btinternet.com>
Subject: Lush
Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 19:53:33 +0100
From Brewer's Dictionary of 20th Century Phrase and Fable:
"lush (1) US slang for a drunkard or drug addict. The word came
into popular use in the 1920s for an alcoholic but goes back to
the mid-19th century when a whisky bottle was also humourously
called a "lush Betty". It was also a slang word for alcohol in
late 18th-century England, probably after a London brewer called
Lushington. (2) Abbreviated form of luscious, indicating that
someone or something is eminently desirable or attractive.
"I'm sure there is also a quote somewhere in Wodehouse where
someone who is being applied to for vast sums of money is referred
to as being "lushed up". I forget whether it's the inevitable rich
gent being fed Anatole's food or some tight-fisted uncle being
persuaded to unload some of the needful for his nephew to get
married, and it would take a while to find out, so I won't.
I just remember it because I thought at the time it was an
odd expression. rgds Gary Alderson
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From: "Michael Barry" <michaelj.barry@talk21.com>
Subject: Re: The word "lush"
Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 02:50:55 +0100