HARDY FORUM ARCHIVE HO2071 11/16/02 "NEW THOMAS HARDY SOCIETY WEBSITE" ====================================================================== From: "Rarebks" Subject: Re: Thomas Hardy Society Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 13:51:00 -0600 OOOOps! I've been a little ill and didn't properly read your message. I have the link therein. Thanks. John Bridell ----- Original Message ----- From: Rarebks To: HARDY-L@csusm.edu Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 10:35 AM Subject: Thomas Hardy Society Dear All: We are pleased to announce that The Thomas Hardy Society has its official website up and running at thomashardysociety.com. It is all quite new and we are still adding content and working out the bugs. We would appreciate your comments and suggestions all directed at the site webmaster at rarebks@aiconnect.com. We thank you all for your support and look forward to an interesting and continuing presence on the World Wide Web. ========== From: Martin Ray Sender: enl090@abdn.ac.uk Subject: Society website Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 15:13:20 +0000 (GMT) Dear All May I please urge members to visit the new Society website and to give feedback. It is very important for the Society that we get this right. You'll find the site at thomashardysociety.com. All the best, Martin Dr Martin Ray School of English and Film Studies University of Aberdeen Aberdeen AB24 2UB Scotland, UK m.ray@abdn.ac.uk Editor, Thomas Hardy Journal ========== Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 10:26:16 -0500 From: Robert Schweik Subject: Re: Society website Dear Martin, Much better than the earlier web page, I think. One problem, perhaps not notable on some browsers, but on my Netscape the page comes up far wider than the screen so that one must scan not only up and down but right and left to get all of it. On my Microsoft Internet Explorer, width is no problem. As I see it, you intend the length scroll, and the menu bar at the bottom remains on to make other choices possible--so that's fine. And, it may be that my somewhat older Netscape (4.7) is not capable of handling the width that newer versions do. Otherwise, fine! And the tone of the text is exactly right, it seems to me. All the best, Bob schweik@fredonia.edu schweikr@localnet.com ========== Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 13:09:19 -0800 From: Dale Kramer Subject: Re: Society website Martin, I think the Society website is attractive, elegant, and informative. The material is well-arranged on the screen, and I'm glad that the menu remains at the bottom of the screen so I don't have to keep using my "back" button in going from subject to subject. I found the discussion of "Collecting Hardy" a helpful introduction to the subject; and I look forward to comparable introductory discussions of the other subjects, including a fuller discussion of "Dorset & Wessex". I assume that "feedback" ideally should include some reference to possible improvement, but all I can think of is that perhaps "Introduction" could be better devoted to fuller general comment on the work of the storyteller and poet, with the detailed life-line be relocated to another section (perhaps to "Life and Texts"?). The purpose of the website is, appropriately, to present information about the Society, but with the addition of another category or two, it could also become a primary place for students and researchers. Thanks for the new web destination! Dale ========== Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 14:56:00 -0800 From: Betty Cortus Subject: Re: Society website Dear Martin, I just took a peek at the Hardy Society website, and I'm impressed. It looks very nice. My only quibble would be about the dark background for anyone wanting to print up a page or two. I find students using someone else's computer frequently like to take home hard copies, and the background doesn't work well in those cases. But above all thanks to those of you who have added another dimension to Hardy on-line. Betty Cortus ========== From: Martin Ray Sender: enl090@abdn.ac.uk Subject: Re: Society website Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 09:22:46 +0000 (GMT) Dear All: I fear my previous posting inviting you to look at the Society website has led to misunderstanding. Firstly, I must stress that I have had absolutely nothing to do with the website. Like you, I saw it for the first time yesterday. In asking for feedback, I was not asking for feedback to me but to the webmaster, who can be contacted at rarebks@aiconnect.com. My own impression of the website is that it is a disappointment. It is littered with numerous errors and seems to have been launched prematurely. Most importantly, it fails to do the relatively simple task which it is intended to do: it doesn't say what the Society is, what it does, who might like to join, what members can expect from their participation (e.g. the Conference). The link to the Membership page crashes everyone's computer, it seems: not a good way to attract new members! The site is difficult to read: black background is combined with often highly inappropriate fonts (I defy anyone to see what is happening at Portsmouth on the Upcoming Events page). Download times are very lengthy (no doubt all those images): I have yet to hear from anyone whose patience or wallet allowed them to complete a download. All of this is intended as constructive criticism at a time when the optimism in the Society promises a very exciting future: at such a crucial point in the Society's history, this is a great opportunity for us to present the Society to potential members in the most attractive light. Best wishes, Martin Dr Martin Ray School of English and Film Studies University of Aberdeen Aberdeen AB24 2UB Scotland, UK m.ray@abdn.ac.uk Editor, Thomas Hardy Journal ========== Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 12:46:16 -0500 From: Robert Schweik Subject: More Comment on the THS Website My first reaction to the new THS website was prompted by my disposition to take a kindly uncritical view of it. Rosemarie Morgan's message prompted me to take a closer look at it. She is right, I think, in every respect. The colors are a problem (as Betty Cortus also mentioned), there are many typos, clicking on the "membership" button causes me to get a "your computer has performed an illegal operation" message, and there is much important information about the society not given, and the like. And--in accordance with Martin Ray's note, I'm sending this message not only to the Forum (to explain my change of view) but to rarebks@aiconnect.com to call the webmaster's attention to the problems. He, in turn, I request to inform the persons at the Thomas Hardy Society involved in overseeing the web page. Bob Schweik schweik@fredonia.edu schweikr@localnet.com ========== Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 12:46:22 -0800 From: Betty Cortus Subject: Re: Society website The Hardy Society website webmaster is a Forum subscriber, so any mail directed through this medium will reach him. All the Best, Betty ========== From: "K Eldron" Subject: Re: More Comment on the THS Website Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:44:36 -0000 The site now (Monday evening) appears to be "Under construction" - perhaps down for updating? Regards K Eldron kaffi@onetel.net.uk ========== From: "Rarebks" Subject: Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:48:03 -0000 Due to the flurry of public criticism caused by the THS site, it is no longer available, nor is its webmaster who specifically sought private comment and review and not public rant. Best of luck to the Society and its next webmaster. Over and out! ========== From: "Rarebks" Subject: parting words Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 22:05:22 -0000 Thoughts at Midnight Mankind, you dismay me When shadows waylay me! Not by your splendours Do you affray me, Not as pretenders To demonic keenness, Not by your meanness, Nor your ill-teachings, Nor your false preachings, Nor your banalities And immoralities, Nor by your daring Nor sinister bearing; But by your madness Capping cool badnesses, Acting like puppets Under Time's buffets; In superstitions And ambitions Moved by no wisdom, Far-sighted or system, Led by sheer senselessness And presciencelessness Into unreason And hideous self-treason... God, look he on you, Have mercy upon you! Thomas Hardy ========== From: "Roy Buckle" Subject: Re:Rarebks Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 22:58:28 -0000 Organization: musician/composer Yet another EXPERT bites the dust.. ========== Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:23:35 -0800 From: Dale Kramer Subject: Society website Evidently my ten-year-old computer has something magical in it, because it did not experience any of the problems confronted by Martin Ray and Bob Schweik in working with the bran-new (Hardy's spelling) just-defunct Thomas Hardy Society (U.K.) website. (Somehow I did not receive Rosemarie Morgan's message that Bob referred to, so I can't comment on that.) The Society's homepage came up almost immediately; and each of the category buttons I clicked on, including those that embedded a number of photos, loaded rapidly. Because I have an old-fashioned modem, I assume this means that the photos aren't of fine resolution, but they looked good! But perhaps it's just, as I say, Macintosh magic. The membership application forms and such-like printed out fine. I too had some problems with the dark background in one page when I printed it out, but I could read the information on the screen without trouble. It was certainly not a deficiency to condemn the entire website for. Because the webmaster is winding down the website, naturally things didn't work as well when I went to it a few minutes ago. But from what I saw the previous times, I urge the webmaster to rework the website, and keep it going. It seems to me the Society is lucky that there's someone around willing to put in the trouble to build a website and to (presumably) be willing to continue to host it. Best wishes for further understanding of Hardy, Dale ========== From: Charles.Anesi@wellsfargo.com Subject: RE: Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 17:33:20 -0600 I thought the site looked great. A few glitches, but that is not unusual in a redesigned site. Only suggestion I had was to put the menu bar on the top of the screen, or vertically on the left side of the screen, which is the general GUI convention. But I wouldn't tarry over that point. Chuck Anesi Charles.Anesi@wellsfargo.com 612-667-9518 pager 888-278-6532 **These opinions are strictly my own and not necessarily those of Wellsfargo** ========== From: "Helen Gibson" Subject: Hardy Society website Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 23:37:04 -0000 Dear Members, We are very grateful for the considerable amount of work which has been done in the design, construction and planning of a new website for the Society, and for time so generously spent on this project. May we also thank those who sent in many constructive comments. After consideration of these comments and a good deal of discussion, it has been decided that the best course for the moment is to update the Society s original website at www.hardysociety.org This will be done as speedily as possible, and I will post a further notice when the updating is completed. With all good wishes, Helen Gibson ========== Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 20:59:52 -0500 From: Shannon Rogers Subject: THSociety Web Page Hello All, I apparently logged on a little late and found the page to be "Under Construction" with only one non-working link remaining. What I saw was beautiful. I can understand why some might worry about the background for printing, but otherwise it looked fine. What troubles me is the kneejerk and melodramatic response to some online criticism. Perhaps it's a touchy time of the year, or a touchy time in the world, with this nebulous threat of war hanging over us all, something Hardy himself would have deplored, I am sure. Why abandon a perfectly fine and promising project because a few people had some negative, but constructive things to say? Perhaps they could have made those criticisms privately, or perhaps they might have couched it in more kindly language, but what they had to say did not seem to me, as an outside observer, to be any sort of personal attack. It's very sad to think that the lovely and potentially useful page I saw will now be completely jetisoned because criticism was taken the wrong way. Again, as an outside of observer, it strikes me as very similar to the melodrama surrounding the last Hardy conference in Dorset, where tempers ran high, and hasty actions threatened to leave deep and long-lasting wounds. Although it's no different than Hardy himself flinging his hands up in despair and refusing to write another novel, I personally found that to either be a weak excuse on TH's part or one of his less attractive moments. Either way, I can't help but regret the fine novels I as a reader have missed out on because he couldn't take the heat. So, can't we all come together in our love for Hardy and try to more mature about giving and receiving criticisms? After all, it is merely a webpage, but it is also a labor of love and a means for us all to learn more and celebrate our favorite author. Best Regards, Shannon ========== Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 22:50:34 -0400 From: mrimmer@unb.ca (Mary Rimmer) Subject: Re: Society website I would agree with Dale Kramer's comment about the ease with which the site worked on Mac hardware (it must indeed be that old Mac--or new Mac--magic). I'm happy to hear that the site is being overhauled and will be running again before too long. First versions of anything do tend to have bugs. Mary Rimmer Mary Rimmer (mrimmer@unb.ca) Dept. of English Univ. of New Brunswick P.O Box 4400 Fredericton, N.B. E3B 5A3 506 458-7393/506 458-9592 FAX 506 453 5069 ========== Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 23:59:01 -0500 From: Rosemarie Morgan Subject: Re: Society website Since I haven't yet voiced, in public, my warm support of the TH Society's webmeister's labour of love and my concerns about some of the difficulties I initially encountered with the page I'd like to say that I agree with a good deal of what you say, Dale, although I too (like others) had difficulty with the downloading. However, I understood from the webmeister early last week -- who has been sweating blood and tears to get this page under way-- that it was still under construction and that he keenly invited observations (which he appears to have received ... ) When he presented his website as ready for feedback a couple of days ago I, in common with many others, looked forward to creative criticism. So I do hope there'll be a Phoenix Rising From the Flames. We are eager, expectant and deeply supportive here --- (I sincerely believe that's what folks had in mind despite the fact that hasty emails don't always hit the right note). Incidentally I realised tonight, after talking with a software expert, that my own rather tatty-looking TTHA website probably needs smartening up -- you know, menu bars and stuff. And I was hoping, actually, to get some tips from the Society webmeister and possibly from Lord Roy of Gauntlet fame (who has been advising some of us at TTHA privately). It's an extremely difficult task trying to get a decent webpage together if you don't have expensive software! (And I mean expensive! One TTHA member tells me tonight that Macromedia Flash is now on special offer at $800!) So all strength to the Hardy Society Page designers. Please don't give up on us now! Cheers Rosemarie ========== Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:50:02 -0700 Subject: The Site, the Society, the carping From: Joan Sheski I extend grateful thanks to those good-hearted folk of the Society and the site whose minds, like mine, tend to function not in an efficient, technological, American-fast-food mode when pondering anything to do with Thomas Hardy. It is fine with me if the journals do not arrive precisely on time, and if the business of instant communication via e-mail and websites, etc. is slow to become slick. I need more time to think anyway. Having taken time to think about criticism launched across the ocean in the recent past, and now this new spate re the website, I am embarrassed. We seem to be so enamoured with perfecting technological communication that we have abandoned the courtesies and sensitivities necessary for human interaction to aid creativity. What comes to mind is the lethal mail-cart speeding with its load of two dimensional words on paper straight into Prince with that horse's load of honey, beehives, and Tess. We'll all get there on time, but some of us haven't let off looking for her as we "progress"; we follow winding forest paths, take side excursions, and allow for confusion. I believe TH was not oversensitive, and, moreover, he gave us all a body of work that is by no means incomplete, nor completely understood. I am saddened and somewhat censored by the harsh tones and critical comments evident regarding the mechanics of our communications; it is a wonderful thing that we have instant .com. and that there are so many experts with it, but it is never going to replace the foundation of human civility upon which it must rest. We can drive people away by hurting them, or we can include empathy and compassion in our comments, thereby attracting and stimulating forum discussions. Please consider the latter course. Joan Sheski ========== Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 00:45:59 -0500 From: Rosemarie Morgan Subject: Re: Society website Back again-- and apologies for having arrived late on the scene of "construction" -- though delighted to hear that The THSoc is rising to the occasion and will be back online shortly. Wonderful News! Congratulations to the Dorchester office. Just a couple of web-points. First is that we are lucky indeed to have a website evaluator of some considerable expertise in Bob Schweik who has, in the course of four years with TTHA provided (on LINKS) perceptive evaluations of nigh on 300 Hardy-related websites (now, that has to be a record). And I think Bob would agree with one thing: economy is all. That for the countless numbers of internet users across the globe who are allocated only minutes of usage each week (Dr Shanta Dutta, TTHA's VP in India is one of them), a good webpage is a succint, economically-worded speedily-loading page. Students and others in countries less privileged than ours who have to pay for every single second they use would heartily endorse this. Second point is -- and again I think Bob would ratify this -- that a beautiful, elaborately eye-catching page is one thing (very popular among US students-- go visit some college websites!) -- an informative page is quite another. Somewhere there has to be a happy medium one would think and perhaps Macs know where that place is? It would seem that between the recently designed "beautiful-looking" page and Helen Gibson's earlier version which was practical and economic (but, for some reason not acceptable to the old garde at the TH Society--pre the July AGM) there might be The Ideal Website! But howsoever the Society page evolves this upcoming week you can rest assured -- Dorchester Designers All -- that you have an audience at the ready that nobody can call unresponsive! Best of Luck! Rosemarie ========== From: Ajmw1@aol.com Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 04:52:14 EST Subject: Society website The only aspect that concerned me was the time that the site took to load. More than five minutes, far longer than comparable, and more memory intensive sites on the same computer. I tried with different browses (OPERA, Internet Explorer and Netscape) and on each the loading time was longer than necessary. Plainly, sites are optimised for different purposes, and I found the content interesting. But it is widely held view that site visitors will not wait as long as this for a site to load. But almost every site has flaws initially, and it would be sad if comment/criticism should halt this very worthwhile venture. Andrew Wheatcroft ========== From: "alan shelston" Subject: Re: The Site, the Society, the carping Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 10:30:43 -0000 As a professional academic, a fairly sleeping member of the THA, and a subscriber to the Hardy list I have read recent correspondence with some detachment, but now with increasing dismay. I have benefitted considerably on a number of occasions from the discussions on the list, and indeed have reviewed its productions very favourably in recent years. But I really don't need my e-mail to be cluttered up with endless in-fighting and apparently unresolvable internal conflicts. I define myself as a professional academic, but I also have considerable experience of another literary society. And my experience (in this other case far happier) leads me to pose the question of whether the conflicts are at heart due to the different priorities of academic and what for want of a better term I will call 'generalist' members. If that is the case I think it is the latter whose interests the academics need to be careful of. After all we have been fortunate enough to have had rewarding careers in the academic world, with all of its rewards and facilities. But there is another kind of reader/enthusiast, and I have found one of the benefits of literary societies to have been that one becomes aware of a wider readership, equally committed to the love of their author, if not with the same academic priorities and - dare I say it - prejudices and obsessions, and it is in the hands of such people that our author's reputation rests, as much as our own. As Dr Johnson said of Gray's Elegy, 'by the common sense of readers uncorrupted with literary prejudices, after all the refinements of subtilty and the dogmatism of learning, must be finally decided all claim to poetical honours.' Yes, we have all taught ourselves in the world of critical theory to be superior to common sense, but I think the general point still holds. This message may be based on a false premise - there may be no such academic/generalist divide of the kind that I have suspected. But anyway, can the list get back to talking about Hardy please. Alan Shelston ========== From: Jcphardysoc@aol.com Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 08:27:17 EST Subject: Re: Society website 'To lose one website, Mrs Gibson, may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose both looks like carelessness'. Actually, I had no problems accessing the new site, including the membership form, and I do not use a Mac. It had great potential for further development if the minor errors were corrected. Best wishes John Pentney ========== Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 09:23:14 -0500 From: Rosemarie Morgan Subject: Re: All Things Bright and Beautiful In fairness to all concerned (including Hardy), I'd like to say, that first of all, that the Society website is a genuine endeavour to promote "the talking about Hardy." And in embarking on this worthy project the webmeister sought to invite others to respond with a like interest -- and they did! Next, the webdesigner is one such "generalist" who hoped for feedback from everyone, including the Hardy specialist -- he got it. Third, those of us who labour on Hardy websites undertake this task precisely because we-the-people do actually hold the interest of every Hardy lover at heart-- deeply. There is no vested interest in this, no remunerations, no academic favours, & certainly no conflict with the "generalist." TTHA's Forum has been flourishing for some four or five years now and (aside from some unfortunate postings after the July AGM) maintains a lively balance between information, discussion, scholarship, opinion and most important of all, free speech. In support of this feat of "generalist" and scholarly free self expression TTHA's Forum Director, Betty Cortus, works night and day (as does her husband) to help maintain these very qualities I've outlined. If Professor Shelston finds the recent spate of highly productive* discussions on the Society website to be "unresolvable" /"endless in-fighting" may I suggest he unsubscribes-- really a very simple procedure completed in the time it takes to read one email. Rosemarie ========== From: "Rare Books" Subject: website Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 06:51:50 -0500 I have read with some dismay the divergent and sometimes silly comments on the recent new website of the Thomas Hardy Society. As the webmaster of the new site, I need to point out that it was posted on this forum for critical commentary and input simply because this group would obviously be the most discerning on content. I also specified in the original message that any and all comments should be posted to me PERSONALLY. Whether this request was intentionally ignored or simply mistaken, the results were a deviseness that was neither welcomed nor warranted nor appropriate. We are all here, in theory, because of a love/admiration/respect for the work of Mr. Hardy. I believe that the THS in its current configuration stands for that creed, perhaps more so now than anytime in its history. I can assure you that the creation of a website is no easy matter in the best of circumstances: users often have older equipment, weak telephonic links, etc. and no creation by any human is going to please everyone ( I think the Council of Nicea proved that point). I can assure you that the Council of Management of the Thomas Hardy Society is strong, steadfast and dedicated in its purpose and about as fine a group of people as anyone is likely to encounter. Those of you who know my own personal accomplishments also know that I do not make this sort of determination easily and without a wealth of experience. The new website with most of its bugs eliminated (hopefully) will be up and running soon in a version that will be accessible by just about anyone. Long live the Society and its good works! ========== Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 07:10:12 -0800 From: Betty Cortus Subject: Re: website Dear Webmaster, Please accept my apologies about messages concerning the new website coming to the Forum. It was not clear to me that the comments were to be sent to you privately. I am very sorry about the misunderstanding. Your wishes were not in any way "intentionally ignored." I do hope you did not take exception to my one small quibble. See my earlier message below. It was meant constructivvely, and my enjoyment of the site was sincere. Betty Cortus On 11/17 I wrote to the Forum: Dear Martin, I just took a peek at the Hardy Society website, and I'm impressed. It looks very nice. My only quibble would be about the dark background for anyone wanting to print up a page or two. I find students using someone else's computer frequently like to take home hard copies, and the background doesn't work well in those cases. But above all thanks to those of you who have added another dimension to Hardy on-line. Betty Cortus hardycor@owl.csusm.edu ========== From: "Rare Books" Subject: Re: website Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:23:01 -0500 Dear Betty and John, Thank you for your insightful input and no apology is necessary. I am vicariously embarrassed for the Society at Martin Ray's insistent rude ranting and will simply ignore him in an attempt to lessen the harm he is doing the Society. Steve ==========